I’ll just leave this here and let the flame war begin

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Viewing 6 posts - 16 through 21 (of 21 total)
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  • #42683
    Farktographer
    Participant

    Anyone else think he’s completely wrong?
    There are tons of other photography styles flourishing. Pop art photography is huge, fantastic art photography is huge with these new digital whatsits, abstract is very popular, etc.
    As they say in music: if it all sounds the same to you that just means you don’t like that genre.

    I definitely see the flaws in his argument for that reason. The wine analogy I made earlier about how people can’t force you to like something you don’t goes both ways…if you like the Duss style, you like it – nobody can sit there and convince you to hate it.

    #42684
    staplermofo
    Participant

    Putting aside matters of opinion, I think he’s wrong that the photos that sell are the photos he’s describing.

    You know, “images of American highways, petrol stations and diners… blighted industrial and urban scenes in muted tones… deliberately amateur snapshots documenting ?everyday? life… nightmarish visions of our present and future.”

    It’s out there, but I wouldn’t say it’s overwhelming, and I wouldn’t say it’s from D?sseldorfian influence. I see more of the Vancouver school in the photographs I’ve seen that meet his descriptions. I see more influence from the neorealism cinematographers too.
    Both of his core assumptions (1, the market is flooded with this and 2, it’s those damnable D’Dorfians’ doing) seem, I dunno, intellectually lazy and frumpy.
    I’m no art historian, and I don’t see as much photography as I’d like, so I’m not being rhetorical. Maybe it’s because he writes like he’s used to knowing a lot more than his audience that makes me think he’s so full of it; I’m genuinely curious.

    #42685
    ennuipoet
    Participant

    I am a regular reader of the The Online Photographer and TOP just solicited submissions for print sale. 600 submissions were winnowed to 20 finalist and they were voted on to reach the 5 offered. Here are the five:

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2011/11/the-five-finalists.html

    Two of the five (and I think it will be easy to spot which) are very much in the Duss school style. What I think is relevant is this post

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2011/11/readers-prints-mikes-picks.html

    in which the blog owner/author talks about his favorite shots but not picked for prints. It wasn’t until he talked about how some of his preferred shots he couldn’t envision someone buying to hang on their wall that I got what this is about: what looks good on display.

    I print a lot of my shots now since I bought the big printer, but I can see why other people wouldn’t hang them on a wall. After all, I photograph strangers doing strange things, why would anyone want an 11X14 of this guy

    on their wall? Much of the Duss school is very conducive to large prints and the subject matter is pleasing and not controversial, in short it sells well. A huge market segment is corporate buildings, hotels, ect who want visually pleasing art with no political or social message that might cause customers/clients to be upset. Yes the photos are, IMHO, bland, and maybe that is what the original author is on about, how the style, the market is killing photography by making it about what sells instead of what is visually compelling.

    #42686
    orionid
    Participant

    Man, you need to warn me before I scroll past photos like that on a public machine with other people behind me.

    Seriously, though, I knew there was going to be some debate, as I had a debate with myself before I posted the link. And I thought of just about every point that’s been presented so far, and agree with all of them (even the opposing views). The guy was all over the page, except for his hatred of the Dusseldorf Style Gone Wild, yet made a few points. It especially caught my attention that he called out Gursky by name (amongst others), when we were debating the $4.3 million dollar Gursky print the other day.

    There are some things that I like, for example, your above photo is interesting to me; it makes me wonder who that guy is, where he’s going, what he’s doing, etc. But as you pointed out, I certainely wouldn’t buy it and hang it on my wall. I probably also wouldn’t buy the clich?d long exposure smoothed sea foam wooden dock in a bay, but again, that’s just me. What I tend to pull out of the article, though, is that with the proliferation of decent photography (and an upswell in generally great photography), it does seem like people are trying too hard to push there own work to stand out above the rest, including an overly descriptive emotional blurb. An example of this came from a few years back when I went to the Guggenheim with Pangolyn (who considered herself an artist, but studied and worked at computer graphic design because she understood that’s what was commercially viable). There was one wing celebrating lesbian artists, and the key gallery was simply polaroids of everyday life. When I look at art, I tend to only look at the art, then I’ll read the blurb if I care to see who did it. One particular polaroid in this gallery caught my attention as being utterly crap. It was a slightly out of focus photo of a four or five year old girl wearing a pink tutu and a USC t-shirt. She was standing on a chair, trying to reach for a cookie jar at the back of the counter. I said to Pangolyn “what the fuck is this doing here? These belong in a family photo album, not on the wall of the fucking Guggenheim.” She told me I had to read the description to understand the true meaning of the photo. The paragraph underneath it rambled on and on about how the girl’s struggle to reach the cookies was metaphorical to everyone living in the Los Angeles suburbs who are struggling to reach something better, but are held down by physical, geographic, and legal obstacles. I didn’t get it. It was a four year old trying to get the cookie jar.

    This also ties into my already standing opinion that “fine art” is a genre dominated by a slightly widened nepotism. Like Matisse, for example. Personally, I think he sucks. Most of his “best known” works look like something you’d see in a high school gallery opening. But, he went to the right school, had the right mentors, and knew the right people, so his overusage of wide, sweeping flats of uniform color and his inability to accurately portray the human body were “creatively breaking the established rules.” Bullshit. I saw this in action when I was living in NY. When I left, I had just “cracked into” the albany art scene and was invited to show at a gallery. This was simply because I’d been hanging out and shooting with a friend who was already in “the scene” and personally knew the fellow who arranged most of the major galleries and shows. I was only invited after her recommendation and he went through some of my portfolio.

    I guess it all boils down to the old saying “I don’t know what art is, but I know what I like.” Even in my own shooting, I don’t feel like I have a style, I shoot what interests me, and process the ones that I like (usually less than 10% of what gets shot), and try to use different techniques or equipment to see what happens. But I’ve had multiple people tell me that they know and love my style, and that they could pick one of my photos out of a stack of 100. But none could put into words what my style was.

    So, I’ll keep shooting, and since it’s not my day job, nor do I intend it to be, if people like and want to buy, print, or publish my shit, okay, cool. If not, fuck ’em, they’re my photos anyway (although, it would be really nice to rake in seven figures from a single print).

    #42687
    nobigdeal
    Participant

    I guess it all boils down to the old saying “I don’t know what art is, but I know what I like.” Even in my own shooting, I don’t feel like I have a style, I shoot what interests me, and process the ones that I like (usually less than 10% of what gets shot), and try to use different techniques or equipment to see what happens. But I’ve had multiple people tell me that they know and love my style, and that they could pick one of my photos out of a stack of 100. But none could put into words what my style was.

    So, I’ll keep shooting, and since it’s not my day job, nor do I intend it to be, if people like and want to buy, print, or publish my shit, okay, cool. If not, fuck ’em, they’re my photos anyway (although, it would be really nice to rake in seven figures from a single print).

    Very much this…

    I see my photography as a technical skill more than an art. I will read about techniques and gear/gadgets all day, but talking about “artistic styles” bores me to tears.

    #42688
    staplermofo
    Participant

    It completely escaped me that people buying stuff to put in their homes is probably what most photos are bought for.
    I only go look at prints in museums, and the idea of a photo on the wall is as crazy to me as a fresco. Everything makes a lot more sense now, thanks.

    I also eat that note explaining crap up. EAT IT UP.
    UIC’s psych building has a bunch of it on the walls, like iron slabs made to rust and patina with the “artist”‘s blood sweat and tears; or another where a scene was painted with quickly decaying pigments, so over the course of the semester the image changed completely. I’d like it as a theme, you know “demonstrate nuance and/or an effect/result photographically of something that could be a euphemism or cliche if we did not have language.” Even if it sucked, we could threaten to blow the heads of another 5,000 syntax Nazis every week unless I got my own island, recognized as an independent US protectorate. You guys could hang out on weekends.

Viewing 6 posts - 16 through 21 (of 21 total)
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