Skip to toolbar

Book Stuff That Needs Doing

Forums Forums Projects and Collaborations Projects Book Stuff That Needs Doing

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #32731
    SilverStag
    Participant

    I hate that I’m currently en route to Delaware; I had intended to write my essay this weekend! Sorry, Mea Culpa.

    #32732
    Kestrana
    Participant

    Nature would be great, that’s our sample chapter and it will help me get it done faster.

    #32733
    monsieurstabby
    Participant

    I’d like to write something too!

    #32734
    Kestrana
    Participant

    Sure just email it to me when you’re done!

    #32735
    Kestrana
    Participant

    Today I’m in need of moral support. Do you think we’ve been fair in the manner we used to select content for the book? I know that unless we included every picture ever we’re not going to please everyone and that there will always be critics of your work no matter how good but I’m feeling overwhelmed today. I certainly didn’t take on this project to create enemies or piss anyone off.

    #32736
    QueenBee
    Participant

    Today I’m in need of moral support. Do you think we’ve been fair in the manner we used to select content for the book? I know that unless we included every picture ever we’re not going to please everyone and that there will always be critics of your work no matter how good but I’m feeling overwhelmed today. I certainly didn’t take on this project to create enemies or piss anyone off.

    I’m sorry if someone is being dickish about it. Did you explain the process to them? and that it wasn’t just one person making the decision? The specific themes were choosen and then it was the top 5, no? Altho, come to think of it, I don’t think one of mine was in the top 5….Now that I think about it, there was a group of people helping pick, right? So I don’t know why the person would just pick you to blame too..

    You can only fit so much in the book and you’re right, not everyone is going to be happy but such is life. Is there a backup list/plan B if there are a lot of people who don’t ever get back to you?

    #32737
    linguine
    Participant

    Even though I lobbied some for a different method I’d say this was fair. When you’re dealing with as many photographers and photographs as we are for this no system was going to be perfectly fair. The way I look at it is regardless of how the photos are chosen theres going to be a lot of good photographs by a lot of good photographers.

    #32738
    Choc-Ful-A
    Participant

    Today I’m in need of moral support. Do you think we’ve been fair in the manner we used to select content for the book? I know that unless we included every picture ever we’re not going to please everyone and that there will always be critics of your work no matter how good but I’m feeling overwhelmed today. I certainly didn’t take on this project to create enemies or piss anyone off.

    It sounds like you find yourself caught in what I call the “lightning rod” scenario. You are the visible, vocal, available person in a large project where complex decisions are being made. As a result, you end up having to relay lots of information about choices to people that don’t have the benefit of all the backstory and full context associated with those decisions. And if people get frustrated or upset, you also are the person that fields that information flow as well. So I think that means you can wind up feeling the tension from both sides, possibly with some extraneous emotional “bonus material” in there because people are passionate about what’s happening.

    I have a couple of suggestions that have helped me in the past (including yesterday!) when I’ve found myself in similar situations. First, if you believe choices were made in a reasonable and fair manner, even given that nothing is ever perfect, then don’t question your motives, the choices that the group you represent made, and don’t scramble to adjust or start over. You can still sympathize with how other people feel about what happen, acknowledge their frustration over what they wanted, but that’s different from letting it erode your confidence in your work or your good intentions.

    Second, try to keep in mind that you’re really the proxy and communications point for a group effort, even if you are driving it. So the criticisms are not really about your personally, they are about a group effort and you’re just the focal point. Try to hear it in that context, as the Minister of Culture talking to the citizens of the fine country of Farktography. Any legit concerns that come out of those exchanges just needs to get relayed back to the parliament for discussion, it’s not personal.

    Finally, if the comment ever do cross the line, get personal, are factually inaccurate, or questions you (or your teams) integrity, just let the person know that’s not acceptable and refuse to engage on that level. You may have signed up to do a lot of hard work, which has been exceptional IMO, but it’s unfair to have to put up with abuse in the process. So draw a boundary that allows you to continue driving this fantastic project without absorbing too much stress or misdirected hostility and be honest when people when they cross that line.

    #32739
    nobigdeal
    Participant

    Every person who ever submitted even one photo to Farktography had the opportunity to be involved in this project. It’s not like we just started this last week. We have been discussing this for 2 years now.
    If someone has issues with the themes or photos they should really have gotten more involved in the choosing process.
    I personally think you are doing a fantastic job handling all this!

    #32740
    Kestrana
    Participant

    I’m sorry if someone is being dickish about it. Did you explain the process to them? and that it wasn’t just one person making the decision? The specific themes were choosen and then it was the top 5, no? Altho, come to think of it, I don’t think one of mine was in the top 5….Now that I think about it, there was a group of people helping pick, right? So I don’t know why the person would just pick you to blame too..

    You can only fit so much in the book and you’re right, not everyone is going to be happy but such is life. Is there a backup list/plan B if there are a lot of people who don’t ever get back to you?

    I wouldn’t say dickish. I just received a couple emails today with some concerns about the project in general, not even really blame. That’s not even a bad thing but it makes me re-evaluate how much am I listening to the community and how much am I just doing what I want to do because I want it that way, and whether or not this project was flawed from the beginning.

    When it came to photo selection we started with top 5 but we included 7-10 photos from each contest. The others were picked to 1. incorporate more people 2. bulk up some people’s total photos 3. recognize great photos that didn’t get votes

    Even though I lobbied some for a different method I’d say this was fair. When you’re dealing with as many photographers and photographs as we are for this no system was going to be perfectly fair. The way I look at it is regardless of how the photos are chosen theres going to be a lot of good photographs by a lot of good photographers.

    I am so relieved to hear you say this. I was actually worried that I’d offended you by countering your arguments. But I agree there’s no perfectly fair system.

    Thanks Choc-Ful-A for the advice. I’m a very empathic person so I always try to see people’s sides and arguments which makes it easy for me to get down on myself for not being able to please everyone.

    Thanks NBD and I agree with you that we have been talking about this a long time and I felt like I tried to stir up discussion a lot here and on facebook before I pushed forward with it.

    #32741
    ennuipoet
    Participant

    You know, anyone who doesn’t like it is free to make their own book! That’s what my Mom would say!

    #32742
    staplermofo
    Participant

    At this point, just slap them in the face and stare at them in a way that lets them know if do anything but apologize then hide for the next 12 hours you’ll beat them with looped up coaxial cable. That’s what my Mom would do!

    Besides, even if their concerns were understated, big farking deal. Getting it done at all is 99.99% of it.

    Which reminds me, thanks again Elsinore, Zeke and schnee for working your asses off making and keeping stuff nice.

    #32743
    Elsinore
    Keymaster

    Knowing a bit of the backstory on this one, I will say that the method of choosing photos/Farktographers was honestly not how I would have done it (I would have gone more for the 3 favorite or 3 top vote getters kind of thing). However, while I knew this discussion was happening, and particularly really starting to roll in this past year, I’ve had no time or energy to be involved in the process before very recently; real life has just gotten very hectic for me in the last year, and some days I’m kind of treading water to maintain what I’m doing with Farktography as it is. So I feel like I don’t have room to say much on the subject after so much work has been done to this point. And ultimately, trying to decide what and whom to include was never going to be an easy task regardless of method chosen.

    I will say this, however. I got a Flickr message from someone included in the book, and it jokingly said, “We ought to just call it ‘Elsinore and Friends'”. It was said with no malice intended, but it did give me pause. Sometimes jokes have that grain of truth, ya know? I started wondering if there was going to be resentment over the number of photos each Farktographer has. And I don’t have the highest number of photos, but if someone was (even jokingly) thinking that about me…..? It just made me a bit uncomfortable.

    There were actually a few pictures of mine chosen that I don’t think are particularly strong photos, and I wouldn’t mind cutting them. I mean, do I really need 15 photos in the book? There are certainly other Farktographers and photos from over the years that I’m sorry to not see represented. I wouldn’t mind giving up photos to be able to include them, for what it’s worth. But again, I feel like I’m in a bit of a bind to say much about the process or photos chosen, given I’ve had opportunity to weigh in on things but haven’t taken that opportunity (real life obligations being what they are). Don’t know if any of that makes sense or helps in any way, but there it is…

    #32744
    ravnostic
    Participant

    and whether or not this project was flawed from the beginning.

    Of course the project has flaws. The finest diamonds in the world, to the one, have flaws. It’s through the flaws that we can say ‘Aha! It’s this particular diamond I’m looking at!’ And as it was stated previously, there was plenty of time to contribute ideas, debate ensued, decisions were made, and that’s just the way it is.

    I’ve reviewed book as it is thus far, and I find it *fabulous* {and as a homo, can I really give it any higher compliment? 2 snaps up, maybe? I digress…}

    As for ‘Elsinore and Friends’, well let me check my tally sheet…

    [*flips pages; says ‘uh-uh….herm…ahyah‘; recalls actions, lets mind drift aimlessly; picks nose, contemplates photographing it–decides against it, feeds to cat instead; stares blankly at screen and is reminded he had a coherent thought at one point and decides to get back on topic*]

    I believe I’ve stalked Kestrana’s man, to ill effect (mine, at least), dreadfully (and unknowingly at the time but still) insulted U-Man’s mother, ranted at U-Man himself AND Elsinore (the last at least twice), and generally made a social idiot of myself for the past 6 months, which isn’t unusual for me but often works to my detriment when trying to play along well with others, especially those whom I don’t know.

    And yet I have two pictures in the book. One of them wasn’t even a top 5.

    Have them stick that in their pipe, and smoke it.

    p.s.–did I ever sober up and apologize to those I offended, and have I further offended and pissed off anyone else I should know about? Really, I just suck at the interpersonal interaction gig. I’m really a fungi, once you get to know me.

    #32745
    Kestrana
    Participant

    The thing is that I’m very open to discussing changes and ideas for the book and I feel I have been from the beginning. The method we used to select pictures was the only one that gathered critical mass. If “contact all and pick three” had been suggested and agreed to, I would have run with that as easily as anything else. However it got to a point where I felt I was the only person talking and no one was replying.

    But I see the merit to what was suggested and the criticism of some small number of people having a larger percentage of page space. Just because the person who initially raised this point is in the minority doesn’t make their criticism any less valid. Ultimately we are trying to produce something that will be reflective of our world here and that we’re proud of, and that will actually sell to the public. Maybe this is a good point to consider.

    I have no problem at all and won’t be personally hurt if the consensus is to scrap what has been done and go back to the drawing board in terms of asking people to suggest their favorite 3 or 5, and putting that together again. But I have to say, I won’t be the driving force if we start over. I’m happy to do a book layout again with people’s selections, but if we choose to start the selection process over I don’t think I can summon the will to re-coordinate everything. I have a very comprehensive spreadsheet and contact information though, so it wouldn’t be difficult for someone else to take over.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.