camera on your computer vs. a camera

[cretinbob]

I’d like to ask for some clarification on the farktography rules. This week, some of the very first pics were manipulated “in camera”. But it was the camera on an iMac, and the images were manipulated with a piece of software. I was told that it was OK, because the rules said so.
Well, they don’t. If you read the rules, it says nothing about “in camera” manipulation.It does allow for some stuff that I’m not going to bother listeing here, but it strictly forbids photoshopping, which is what these images were.
I have read “in camera” is OK in the forum. However the context was things like making an image black and white or sepia, etc. In the context of these images and as it was presented to me now, I can hook may camera up to my computer, which I can control from my desktop, take any images I want and shop them anyway I want (if I had any shop skills) and it would all be legit because it would be “in camera”.
I’ve got an issue with that. I have nothing against the person who posted the images I questioned (and other obviously shopped images did show up later in the thread) and I’m not whining because I “lost” by a few votes to the images in question. I’m just asking what “in camera” means and why, if it’s OK, it’s not a part of the official rules. and can we agree on a definition of “in camera” or even “camera”.
It’s not that big a deal, so I’m going back to the beer.
See you all next week.

[Elsinore]

It’s not a big deal, no, but I do think you have a valid point. The rules do state that your photograph should be presented as taken, which is kind of a loophole if you tell the computer (or phone or whatever) to take a picture with whatever wacky filter you want to put on it then take the picture. I think what it really gets down to is violating the spirit of the rules moreso than the letter of the rules. The images are quite a bit more manipulated than most folks would expect in a Farktography contest, but since the manipulation occurs at the time the photo is taken, it’s within the rules at this time. What does anyone else think? Like cretinbob, I’m not trying to single out any particular person or make this a personal issue, just the more general issue of what should be expected under the Farktography rules.

[sleeping]

It seems to me that, given the increasing capabilities cameras are getting for post-taking image manipulation that disallowing “post exposure” manipulation probably makes more sense than allowing in camera things, but not photoshop. Just MO….

[Elsinore]

ok, so on something like iMac/Photobooth, do you tell the computer to take the image with a particular filter, or is the filter applied after the image is snapped? Because the former is currently legal (the “as taken” rule), but the latter wouldn’t be.

[RcMacStudent]

When using Photobooth you see the the video feed from the webcam with whatever digital “filters” are in effect at that time. You click the button and it takes the picture after a five count.

[Elsinore]

Ah ok, I gotcha.

[millera9]

I would have to agree with cretinbob because the manipulation on an image taken with photobooth has nothing to do with the physical properties of the camera. I was trying to reconcilel, in my head, why a photobooth photo and a lensbaby photo aren’t the same thing. The difference is that a lensbaby changes the physical properties of the image for creative purposes. On the other hand, photobooth runs an effect on a digital video and then takes a still when you hit the button. I’d say those types of images are out because they allow too much manipulation after the image has been created, even if the user only has to hit one button and the computer does the rest.

[linguine]

Ive never really liked the anything goes rule for in camera effects because Ive never really seen the difference between digitially manipulating an image with software thats included in the camera vs digitally manipulating an image once its on the computer. If youre not allowed to do something like changing every color in a picture to black and white with the exception of one color using software on your computer then why are you allowed to do this with software in your camera. I personally have no problem with people doing this technique, just think it would be a good idea to limit how much a photo can be manipulated in camera similar to the limitations that we have for manipulating a photo on a computer.

[cretinbob]

See, I thought there was enough for a healthy discussion.
What photobooth sounds like is a video capture, which would equal a screen shot(maybe). It’s similar at least.
I don’t know, it may have just been this particular weeks contest that the issue would ever come up. And please let me reiterate, I’m not complaining, just trying to get a handle for future contests.

[Curious]

even if the user only has to hit one button and the computer does the rest.

sums it up for me.

schnee‘s “in camera” were what the definition has been for multiple exposure techniques or Elsinore‘s strobe effects. if blur or motion was used it was the result of longer exposures not using the liquefy tool or it’s equivalent in the camera software. a lot of point and shot cameras now have effects that used to have to be done in the photo processing. ergo they don’t count as straight shots.

and millera9 has a good point about either lensbaby or physical filters screwed on to the lens. the light is actually being bent at the moment of exposure. like “n camera” no manipulation is done to the actual image.

so i’m with sleeping on disallowing “post exposure” manipulation probably makes more sense than allowing in camera things, but not photoshop.

[Curious]

crap, seems i lost of of these

[Elsinore]

See, I thought there was enough for a healthy discussion.

Of course there was; it’s just better to discuss it here than disrupting the Farktography thread with the discussion.

I don’t know, it may have just been this particular weeks contest that the issue would ever come up.

I do think that this kind of effect was more likely to come up for this theme and much less likely for other themes, but obviously the issue is larger than just Photobooth and touches on other in camera stuff like selective color.

And please let me reiterate, I’m not complaining, just trying to get a handle for future contests.

I personally didn’t see it as a complaint. In the year+ that I’ve been doing Farktography, there have been a number of issues that came up and were clarified. This is just another area that needs clarification.

Maybe we need to tweak the wording similarly to what sleeping suggested, though it might be more clear if we specifically state that digital effects produced “in camera” are subject to the same restrictions as post-processing.

[Curious]

which would be selective or spot effects as opposed to bumping the contrast, EV or switching to b/w capture. things that are done to the entire image.

[Elsinore]

Right

[M-j]

So…now I am totally confused.
In camera stuff (sepia, b&w) is ok if you use them when taken? Cropping is still ok?
I’ve not done this much, so I wanna be sure to get it right (and so y’all don’t think I’m a st00pid n00b).

[Author]

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