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not really a gripe

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  • #810
    Phragmites
    Participant

    right, first things first. this isn’t a gripe, but more of a friendly grumble. im in the UK and since the farktography contests all start at 8pm EST, midnight my time, i dont have the opportunity to post my entries until about 7pm GMT thursday, which is the very tail end of the competition. dont suppose theres any chance of altering the time or maybe making a separate euro competition?

    in the end, im not really interested in ‘winning first place’, but just getting some people to check out my photos and give me some constructive feedback. getting good exposure, if you dont mind the terrible pun. ive only picked up a camera again in the last few months after many years not taking photos. im still fairly new to the digital darkroom – i used to take mostly slides, and therefore was used to getting what i saw – so really want feedback and new ideas. i do have a deviantart account (phragmites.deviantart.com) but its difficult to get noticed. of course its easy for my friends and family to say ‘oh youre really good’ but hell, they’d say that no matter what.

    ok, just realised this has turned into a ramble. comments welcome.

    – P

    #7509
    Curious
    Participant

    the 8 EST time is for “total fark” members and the time the contest goes “live” or to the main page is set by a fark admin. it varies from week to week but would mostly be when you are sleeping or at work. so far as i know there are no plans for a european timed contest.

    you can submit a new topic in the gallery section, two down from where you posted this. in that new post you can link your photos and i can assure you they will be viewed. whether you get the feed back you want or not depends on 1) how you phrase the request (do people understand specifically what you want to know) and 2) who views them and how much time they have. this is a pretty friendly and helpful group and the more you are around the more people will respond.

    the other thing you might think about is getting a total fark account and staying up late wednesday night. some of our european members do that.

    BTW i took a look at your gallery on deviantart and haven’t anything specific to say. for one thing i don’t understand your comment re slide vs. digital. with the exception of wobbles which, to me, looks like hand shake the others are your interpretation of various settings, things, etc. you seem to be able to look from a different perspective than the straight snapshot mode which is a big plus but technically they are good photos. in that they seem to capture what you were aiming for, are properly focused, enough DOF where needed, etc.

    try them out on the folks in the gallery section.

    #7510
    Elsinore
    Keymaster

    Curious had good things to say about getting feedback here, but I also wanted to point out that given the greenlight times for Fark Liters have been in the 2:30am-6am time frame a lot recently, the contest often hits the main page when a lot of North American folks are sleeping as well. Even if it goes live at midnight, that’s pretty late for us over here too. If it’s any consolation, there are a lot of folks who don’t vote until Thursday, or at very least vote some on Wednesday night then come back to vote more on Thursdays. We have also had people (North American and European) not post entries until Thursday morning (Eastern time), and yet they still pulled out a win or high place.

    Regardless, I agree with Curious…post some stuff in the gallery so we can see 🙂

    #7511
    Phragmites
    Participant

    thanks to you both. like i said, i wasnt complaining except that perhaps i’ll have to stay up late… 😉

    i’ll definitely be posting in the gallery here. and making sure to be precise in my requests for comments. i do know what you mean, Curious, about needing to be specific with what i want to know. something i wasnt with my slide/digital remark. i was trying to say that i dont know photoshop/the gimp very well – as in how to make use of its capabilities to enhance a photograph. i think it involves a different way of seeing an image that will partly come from experience.

    taking photos with slide film, as i used to, i think trained myself to see a photograph and compose it before i raised the camera, because you get what you see with slides with no chance for work afterwards. i’d like to start to make use of the potential in photoshop to make the photo i take into something more creative than the initial image offers. judging from what ive already seen around here there’s a lot of very experienced and creative people to learn from.

    thanks again, and i hope i’ll see you around the gallery.

    – P

    #7512
    XenPix
    Participant

    I’m going to drag this one back up from the dark ages.

    I’ve found with the last few contests and a really heavy work load that I just cannot get an entry in until around 6pm (my time) on the Thursday, which is 1pm Thursday fark time.

    I know that fark liters even in the US would have to stay up late to get an entry in, but photoshop contests, as I understand it, have a longer time on totalfark before going live. Admittedly their remit is different and they would need more time after the O is put in. However, would it be a major problem to perhaps post say 2 hours earlier to totalfark? It’s not a major change, but it saves europeans needing to stay up quite so late (if I lived in germany, I’d need to be up at 2am – 6am for a totalfark entry, as an Englishwoman, it’s currently 1am-5am), it’s a bit of a nightmare, to be honest. I enjoy participating, but I also enjoy not screwing up my sleep pattern and stumbling around like a zombie at work on Thursdays.

    In short, the two hours would not be detrimental to US entries, because it’s still a reasonable time of the evening (6pm Fark time) as far as I understand time zones, but would give Europeans a little less disturbed sleep. I hate missing contests, I had some really nice shots (although they were ruins, sorry Quicksilver! 😉 ) for this week, but after the red entries, which were just so late they didn’t really get seen, I’d rather save the shots for the possibility of using them later.

    I would just love to see a more open Farktography, and I think this small change would encourage more European entries.

    #7513
    staplermofo
    Participant

    I can’t support this until Feb. 18, 2015 or when the Treaty of Ghent is repealed!
    “Status quo ante bellum”, my ass! James Madison was a pansy! Those wimpy federalists hate America!

    That said,
    I’m sure plenty of people would be happy to post for you, if you aren’t conveniently able to post yourself.

    (Personally I’m open to changing the time, but, I just wanted to use this as an excuse to let Canada know that I fully support resumption of hostilities to shut them up about how they kicked our ass back in the early 1800s, and to get my grubby mitts on their precious oil, timber and fisheries.)

    #7514
    Elsinore
    Keymaster

    Moving the time back 2 hours would also impact Aussies, however, and we have several of them, as well as some folks in Japan and Korea if memory serves. Unfortunately I don’t think there will be a perfect time that’s going to work for absolutely everyone given participants literally span the globe.

    As it is, 8pm in the Eastern US/Canada is 5pm for folks on the West Coast, when a lot of them are still at work or just getting out. Moving to 6pm Eastern puts it at the time when people are just getting out of work or sitting down to dinner while West Coast folks would have to post at 3pm when we do know some of them can’t Fark at work. I do understand that the time is not that convenient for our Brits, but it’s been chosen as a compromise between the various time zones represented and a desire to get the maximum exposure possible for Farktography (part of the reason that weekends haven’t been considered–Fark traffic is much lower then).

    #7515
    XenPix
    Participant

    I’m not asking for the entire contest to be moved, I’m asking if the time on total fark can be extended by two hours, thereby not impacting adversely on anyone because the original times haven’t been removed.

    Whether it be beginning or end, either would grant that any European would have a better window to post in as a total farker.

    I can see your “that would affect blah” countries points, but you seem to be missing that the current situation is not conducive to the participation of Europeans.

    What I am trying to do is suggest a way that it remains good for others, but also gives a window for Europeans to post at a happier time.

    If the time of start was an issue, make it sit on total fark for 24 hours.

    Right now, it just seems to me, that it is biased against my posting (I use the royal “my” here) and that small steps could be taken to remove that bias and make it a more open competition to everyone.

    #7516
    XenPix
    Participant

    I can’t support this until Feb. 18, 2015 or when the Treaty of Ghent is repealed!
    “Status quo ante bellum”, my ass! James Madison was a pansy! Those wimpy federalists hate America!

    That said,
    I’m sure plenty of people would be happy to post for you, if you aren’t conveniently able to post yourself.

    (Personally I’m open to changing the time, but, I just wanted to use this as an excuse to let Canada know that I fully support resumption of hostilities to shut them up about how they kicked our ass back in the early 1800s, and to get my grubby mitts on their precious oil, timber and fisheries.)

    Right now, it would be far too often for it to be an acceptable solution. I’m looking more long term. But thank you.

    #7517
    Elsinore
    Keymaster

    I’m not asking for the entire contest to be moved, I’m asking if the time on total fark can be extended by two hours, thereby not impacting adversely on anyone because the original times haven’t been removed.

    It would impact adversely on the pool of people who submit the link and post the boobies every week. Currently, the people who are available and approved to do this are in the US. Unfortunately, we have no automation in place to post Farktography links for times when the people currently approved to post aren’t available. It would be nice if we could get this automated on Fark, but I wouldn’t look for that to happen any time really soon as it would be very low priority.

    Whether it be beginning or end, either would grant that any European would have a better window to post in as a total farker.

    Well, if I’m understanding you correctly, adding time at the end wouldn’t do Europeans any good at all. Only adding time before the current 8pm start. Am I missing something?

    I can see your “that would affect blah” countries points, but you seem to be missing that the current situation is not conducive to the participation of Europeans.

    Actually, if you’ll read above, you’ll see I said I understand the time is not the most convenient for Brits–certainly I understand that’s also the case for the rest of Europe.

    What I am trying to do is suggest a way that it remains good for others, but also gives a window for Europeans to post at a happier time.

    I understand this.

    If the time of start was an issue, make it sit on total fark for 24 hours.

    If you’re concerned about posting your entries the next day with the contest’s current format, how would holding it on TF for 24 hours before greenlight be of any further benefit to the contest or participants over all? You’re concerned people don’t see/vote on your entries if you post 6 or 8 hours after it goes green, so imagine all the liters who then post once it finally goes green if we hold it for 24 hrs first. Seems to me that holding it that long would only further make people feel like it’s a TF only game.

    Right now, it just seems to me, that it is biased against my posting (I use the royal “my” here) and that small steps could be taken to remove that bias and make it a more open competition to everyone.

    This wasn’t any kind of intentional snub against Europeans. Farktography started as an informal TF “contest” (there wasn’t even voting when it first started) among people who all showed up at the same time to show off their pictures to each other. It (slowly) grew into an actual recognized Fark contest with voting, and it kept the format of photographers all showing up on the same night because photography is a very different animal from photoshopping. I’m not ruling out a change (again, maybe in the future they can get us scheduled in a more automagic way), but there’s a large contingent of people who like to be there right when the contest opens on TF, and moving it back 2 hours would almost certainly mean a good portion of those people wouldn’t be able to be there, not to mention the people who currently are able to post the link in the first place.

    Those are only my thoughts on the matter, though. What does anyone else think?

    #7518
    Curious
    Participant

    thanks Elsinore, you wrote (almost word for word) what i was thinking but to lazy to post.

    unless or until the link and boobies are automated what we have now is the best we can do. it’s the result of a lot of different folks input and a bunch of trial and error. and like any compromise it doesn’t suit everyone nor serve everyones goals.

    XenPix you aren’t the only European who is unhappy nor the only Farktographer worldwide who wants a time more suitable to their local time zone. there are also the needs of Fark to consider and the TF time and the live time are, again, compromises arrived at with Drew. we hope you understand and will continue to enter. your photos may not get as many votes as you would like but they are appreciated by all of us.

    #7519
    XenPix
    Participant

    So the easiest answer you could have given me would have been that there are currently a) no approved link posters able to post at an earlier time, and b) that there is currently no way for it to be automated on fark to allow an early time.

    Instead, you mentioned disturbing other people’s dinners. Which I’m sure is a great concern to them, but dinners do not take 4 hours. I know you did not mean anything by it, and I’m not taking it personally or trying to make you feel bad, just pointing out that it was a rather poor comparison to ruining someone’s good nights sleep.

    My reason for using the 24 hour option was twofold, firstly to try to impress that I wasn’t trying to do all of this to get to be the first poster. Secondly, to try to also intimate that I was thinking more of totalfark posting, rather than farklite posting. I’m not being elitist, I’m just a little frustrated that the one reason I joined totalfark for, is pretty much pointless for me now.

    In future, I will get up 15 minutes earlier than normal to post my entries on a thursday morning, which will mean I will be posting at the same time as liters. Which makes my subscription fairly pointless, which saddens me somewhat. Extending out the back end by two hours (to answer Zeke’s query) would mean that I still got some use out of my totalfark subscription.

    I’m not trying to be horrible to anyone in all of this, and please don’t mis-understand my second paragraph Elsinore, it’s not meant as a dig at you, just to try to demonstrate that some people might have got the right arse about you comparing your dinner to their sleep (the royal your and their, of course 😉 ). The wish to insult you or anyone else is not my intention, and if I have done so, I sincerely apologise for that.

    I love participating both here and in the competitions, everyone is helpful and nice and a little twisted, which is all good. I don’t want to not do that, and that or my totalfark subscription are not things I’m going to try and use as some sort of pathetic (and pointless) internet threat. I’ve learnt a great deal since first joining, and I want to keep learning and sharing. I just want to be able to do it using my totalfark subscription and getting a good nights sleep! 😀

    You will have to forgive me also if I’m rambling, it’s 5:30 am and after waking at 4am with a lovely bout of insomnia, I’m all befuddled.

    #7520
    Elsinore
    Keymaster

    So the easiest answer you could have given me would have been that there are currently a) no approved link posters able to post at an earlier time, and b) that there is currently no way for it to be automated on fark to allow an early time.

    Instead, you mentioned disturbing other people’s dinners. Which I’m sure is a great concern to them, but dinners do not take 4 hours. I know you did not mean anything by it, and I’m not taking it personally or trying to make you feel bad, just pointing out that it was a rather poor comparison to ruining someone’s good nights sleep.

    I also mentioned people’s work schedules (mentioned it first, as a matter of fact). And as I explained further in my second post, Farktography grew out of an informal thread where people showed up at the same time and showed off photos they had. As it grew into a contest, the time has been a compromise, yet there’s still a large contingent of people who like to show up at that time. Moving the time changes that for them whether they’re an approved link poster or not.

    My reason for using the 24 hour option was twofold, firstly to try to impress that I wasn’t trying to do all of this to get to be the first poster. Secondly, to try to also intimate that I was thinking more of totalfark posting, rather than farklite posting. I’m not being elitist, I’m just a little frustrated that the one reason I joined totalfark for, is pretty much pointless for me now.

    I guess what I’m not understanding is that the time hasn’t been different in all the time you’ve been participating, but the time has only recently been more an issue with your schedule changes/work load. While I certainly see the value in making things more convenient for our Euro contingent in general, I also know that we’ve had a lot of old regulars who currently aren’t participating as much because of their work/schedule changes. That happens.

    I’m not trying to be horrible to anyone in all of this, and please don’t mis-understand my second paragraph Elsinore, it’s not meant as a dig at you, just to try to demonstrate that some people might have got the right arse about you comparing your dinner to their sleep (the royal your and their, of course 😉 ). The wish to insult you or anyone else is not my intention, and if I have done so, I sincerely apologise for that.

    Well, I would hope any of those people would also have read closely enough to notice that I also mentioned people’s work schedules (mentioned them first, as a matter of fact) and not just dinner. 😛 As both Curious and I mentioned, the time has always been a compromise among the participants and with Fark itself.

    I love participating both here and in the competitions, everyone is helpful and nice and a little twisted, which is all good. I don’t want to not do that, and that or my totalfark subscription are not things I’m going to try and use as some sort of pathetic (and pointless) internet threat. I’ve learnt a great deal since first joining, and I want to keep learning and sharing. I just want to be able to do it using my totalfark subscription and getting a good nights sleep! 😀

    Please believe me when I say that I love to see you participating–you have a great eye, and you’re an excellent asset to Farktography, both the forums and the weekly contests. But it’s taken Farktography a very very long time to just get to the point (this year, in fact) where we don’t have to beg every week for a greenlight in the first place or email and beg for a more convenient greenlight for liters when the contest gets greenlit for 6am, yadda yadda. There’s a lot of competing interests to weigh, and it’s not perfect, but it’s what we’ve got right now.

    That being said, Zeke has an idea for something that might help, however, it will need to be discussed with Fark, and the approval (or disapproval) of it will be entirely up to them. Keep your fingers crossed, and more on that as we find out ourselves….

    #7521
    XenPix
    Participant

    Thank you for understanding.

    My main problem isn’t just my work load, I also have a rather nasty sleep disorder, that combined with actually having work at work has made it pretty well impossible for me to do much of anything. I haven’t taken my camera out for three weeks, except for work. That makes me a very sad bunny indeed.

    I’m going to imagine this thing Zeke has up his sleeve is something to do with his asking for people with Macs. It’s fantastic that you guys are all so supportive and are working towards making farktography even more fab than it already is. I’m keeping my fingers crossed!

    🙂

    #7522
    Elsinore
    Keymaster

    Nasty sleep disorder and not getting to take pictures for pleasure really would suck! Yes, what Zeke’s got up his sleeve does have something to do with his question about Mac use 😉 Just don’t want to reveal too much until we know that it’s ok with Fark. Haven’t heard anything yet, but I’m remaining hopeful–it’s the weekend, and I’m sure Drew’s got other things going on, and I just emailed him this morning.

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