Define "Original Photographer"

[soosh]

that’s pretty arbitrary. she just did one little step in the process to help you out. she wasn’t directing any of it. It’s your picture, isn’t it? she was jut part of the apparatus.

[U-Man]

I agree with soosh. I understand avoiding a slippery slope of ‘how much is too much’ for outside help. But I’m pretty sure we have allowed pics using a ‘human tripod’ before.

/I say you should use it if you want to.
//human tripod jokes in 3…2…1…

[orionid]

//human tripod jokes in 3…2…1…

Schnee‘s tagline?

[Farktographer]

Alas, one of my favorite family shots is one where I set up everything on the camera down to the flash, exposure compensation, aperture, focal point, focal length, and exact positioning of the camera. But I didn’t have my tripod that day, so my sister had to be the remote shutter release. Just don’t feel like I could submit that since she pressed the shutter.

I’ve always been interested where the gray area ends with this. If I use a remote shutter, I’m telling the remote to tell the shutter to open and close. If I set up a shot and have someone else press the button, isn’t it pretty much the same? Using them as a remote, if you will.

I was thinking about it when it came to the x-rays last week. If I went in for an x-ray and was able to set up everything but wasn’t allowed to press the button, wouldn’t me telling the operator to press the button be pretty much the same thing?

Anyways, that one’s a little more arbitrary. I’m thinking in this situation it’s a fair photo to use, Elsinore.

[lokisbong]

Alas, one of my favorite family shots is one where I set up everything on the camera down to the flash, exposure compensation, aperture, focal point, focal length, and exact positioning of the camera. But I didn’t have my tripod that day, so my sister had to be the remote shutter release. Just don’t feel like I could submit that since she pressed the shutter.

I kind of agree with what every one else said. It seems like you just had her be a remote shutter. You did all the hard stuff setting up everything. If everyone else is cool with it I am too.

[soosh]

Alas, one of my favorite family shots is one where I set up everything on the camera down to the flash, exposure compensation, aperture, focal point, focal length, and exact positioning of the camera. But I didn’t have my tripod that day, so my sister had to be the remote shutter release. Just don’t feel like I could submit that since she pressed the shutter.

I’ve always been interested where the gray area ends with this. If I use a remote shutter, I’m telling the remote to tell the shutter to open and close. If I set up a shot and have someone else press the button, isn’t it pretty much the same? Using them as a remote, if you will.

I was thinking about it when it came to the x-rays last week. If I went in for an x-ray and was able to set up everything but wasn’t allowed to press the button, wouldn’t me telling the operator to press the button be pretty much the same thing?

Anyways, that one’s a little more arbitrary. I’m thinking in this situation it’s a fair photo to use, Elsinore.

well, see, no, with the x-ray, it’s not your camera, your studio, your layout, or anything. you’re the model.

but in el’s case, it’s her camera, her setup, her strobes, her post-processing, just not tripping the trigger itself. in that case, you’ve got one other person doing a lot of work and one person pushing a button.

Some may want to draw lines between having someone else trip the shutter of a scene you’ve set up and want to be in and the use of a remote, but I think they’re the same thing, and in both cases, it’s still your shot.

[Elsinore]

Hm…it’s a fair point. I tend to err on the side of caution since I’m anal retentive about the rules 😆 . I do remember monkeybort once submitted a photo she’d similarly set up, but had her husband trip the shutter on, and it was ruled fair. In this case, my sister is not remotely a photographer and she’s actually kind of afraid of my camera with all its buttons and knobs; unless I pre-set everything and physically put her in the position she should be in, she won’t even touch it 😆 I appreciate the feedback, everyone. Now it’s a question of whether or not I’d want to post that particular photo to Fark (I actually don’t like putting a lot of family stuff up there in general).

[olavf]

Historically (at least in the past three years) the rule of thumb has been that you have to be the person that pushes the trigger, at least as far as I’ve been told.

I know it’s a grey area, but maybe we need to have a discussion and define it better, but I lean pretty much on the end of ‘you gotta set up the shot, you’ve gotta push the button’. Otherwise we’re going to have a really hard time drawing the line in the sand.

-edit: I know that ‘help’ has always been allowed, but the ultimate thing has been ‘who pushes the button’ right?

Example: some self-portraits I’ve taken, I’ve had Kat sit roughly in the spot while I dial in the settings. Then I swap places and she looks through the viewfinder and tells me when I’m in the spot. Then I set the timer, pull the trigger, and get my body back in the same location before the shutter fires. So, yes, she helped me, but I set everything up, and I pulled the trigger, and did 98% of the work, really. She helped me set up the shot, but when things came down to it, she wasn’t even looking in the viewfinder when I pushed the cable release.

And I’ve drawn some pretty hard lines here to keep us honest. With two Farktographers in the house, it would probably be pretty easy to cheat, there, if we wanted to, or even wanted to think about how to.

But, I think a line has to be drawn somewhere. As soon as someone else is holding the camera, and squeezing the trigger, they’re having a direct effect on the framing, composition, and timing of the shot. The other person is a technical director, and model, and camera owner at that point, IMO.

My 2.5 cents.

[Zero_Exponent]

… As soon as someone else is holding the camera, and squeezing the trigger, they’re having a direct effect on the framing, composition, and timing of the shot.

Elsinore,I applaud your integrity. You probably could have just kept silent, and nobody would have noticed. If you want to enter it, I certainly won’t get all butthurt about it, but I agree with olavf‘s statement above.

[Elsinore]

I do see olavf’s points, though in this circumstance, I seriously had everyone but me in the shot, lined up and ready to go, physically put my sister in the same spot where I stood with camera already zoomed and set up for manual exposure, flash, and focal point, and told her to keep the chosen focal point over the specified point in the frame, so she had zero control or influence over composition or exposure. I do think the trigger issue is probably a gray enough area that maybe it warrants further discussion and more official policy, but either way, I’m leaning toward not using this picture…just doesn’t seem the kind of photo to share on Fark, to be honest.

Also,

You probably could have just kept silent, and nobody would have noticed.

Yeah, but *I* would know, and if I have enough of a question as to whether something’s in keeping with the rules, I tend to err on the side of avoiding the issue altogether.

[ravnostic]

You probably could have just kept silent, and nobody would have noticed.

Yeah, but *I* would know, and if I have enough of a question as to whether something’s in keeping with the rules, I tend to err on the side of avoiding the issue altogether.

I echo E^0‘s applause [edited]; I believe that’s a quality called ‘personal integrity’ and it’s not often seen in day to day life. There’s a fantastic shot of one of my brother’s kids that I’d love to use, and I’m not in it, and there’s nothing to say I didn’t take it (it’s on my computer, right?)

But I’ll be damned if I can remember taking it, so I decided against it.

[orionid]

My what?

[ravnostic]

My what?

Oops–E^0s. My bad.

[justkat]

FWIW I agree with Olav’s statement (and not just because I have to live with him! lol). I think pushing the button — whether it be a remote release or a timer — is the only true way of saying the picture is YOURS. When Olav does his self portraits if I’m present at all, I step back from the camera altogether once that timer is set. I don’t touch the camera or even look through the view-finder.

I don’t think there is anyone here that can’t handle that small but very basic difficulty. Yes, certain very very old cameras don’t have timers — and maybe we should consider those on a case-by-case basis… and maybe not — but I think 99.9% of farktographers have cameras that are equipped with that feature and can jolly well use one of those cameras for these contests.

I can’t believe I just used “jolly well”… at all. 😛

[sleeping]

Yes, certain very very old cameras don’t have timers — and maybe we should consider those on a case-by-case basis… and maybe not —

Actually, somewhere kicking around in one of my boxes of old photo bits I have a mechanical timer that screws into a standard threaded cable release socket for just such cameras 8)

Here’s one on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Walz-Mechanical-Self-Timer-/180634157122?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0ea28042#ht_500wt_922

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