Dedication

[Curious]

I also feel that the emphasis on not missing contests produces an awful lot of placeholder entries, that are just there to make sure that stats are maintained, which I feel is a detriment to the whole effort people make. I know I’m guilty of it at times.

i don’t think about stats except when reminded of them like here. i do however enter meh like i did tonight. there is little chance that my autumn shots from south louisiana will compete successfully with ones from a northern climate. but i wanted to play with you guys and it’s only once a week.

i also occasionally enter photoshop contests and hang out in the PSAEF where the stats debate rages heavy. two schools of thought there; 1) what you said re entering to maintain stats and dragging the whole effort down and should be abandoned, 2) there are no prizes, fabulous or otherwise, so the stats are a means to keep score over time. IMO stats are interesting but shouldn’t be obsessed over. if you start obsessing about your standing the fun goes away fast. and given the nature of the fark voter what the hell can you really draw from them?

[CauseISaidSo]

i don’t think about stats except when reminded of them like here. i do however enter meh like i did tonight. there is little chance that my autumn shots from south louisiana will compete successfully with ones from a northern climate. but i wanted to play with you guys and it’s only once a week.

And I’m glad you did, Curious, because in my opinion that’s what these contests are about when you get down to brass tacks – having some fun, sharing something that you created, maybe learning something from others, and lastly a little good-natured competition. If the fun’s not there, there’s just no point to the rest of it. I mean, the paycheck’s the same win or lose, right?

It’s kinda like any competition where there’s a possibility that soosh will throw out one of his aurora borealis shots. The voters freakin’ love those shots (and rightly so), but even assuming the rest of us could compose the shot as well as he does, we’ll never know because we have no aurora to shoot, so you throw out what you do have and hope for the best.

Same thing with my football entry tonight. I know from past experience that football shots don’t go over too well with the voters. But you know what? I like that shot and the theme asked what autumn meant to me, and by golly that shot answers the question so I entered it.

two schools of thought there; 1) what you said re entering to maintain stats and dragging the whole effort down and should be abandoned, 2) there are no prizes, fabulous or otherwise, so the stats are a means to keep score over time. IMO stats are interesting but shouldn’t be obsessed over. if you start obsessing about your standing the fun goes away fast.

I think #1 tends to take care of itself. If you’re that concerned about stats that you enter anything just to keep your stats up, I think you’ll quickly find that it’ll have the opposite affect. It’s better for most stats (except recent top ten most votes and similar) to sit out than to enter a dog that drags down your average standings and votes/entry.

#2 is really just echoing what I said above – if it’s not fun, there’s no point to any of it. Have a little competitive edge? Great, then check your stats, use them to push yourself , but don’t obsess. Just want to share your art? That’s fine, too – ignore the stats.

[Curious]

I think #1 tends to take care of itself. If you’re that concerned about stats that you enter anything just to keep your stats up, I think you’ll quickly find that it’ll have the opposite affect. It’s better for most stats (except recent top ten most votes and similar) to sit out than to enter a dog that drags down your average standings and votes/entry.

while what you say is true i was speaking more along the lines of dragging the entire contest(s) down. it’s less likely in farktography but is/was a big problem in photoshop contests. slapping looter guy on a water “O” may get votes but sure doesn’t raise the bar. and unfortunately in some ways stats tend to reward that because vote totals don’t reflect the time spent or skill of the participant.

BTW all i’ve said is background and in no way is meant to be argumentative nor detract from your efforts.

[kashari]

I also would like to see it where you don’t get penalized when you miss a contest. I know it’s to encourage participation, but sometimes life just gets in the way.

I’d also like to see true place rankings, with ties for the same number of votes and no skipping places.

[Elsinore]

I’d also like to see true place rankings, with ties for the same number of votes and no skipping places.

The FSM actually used to do this until someone pointed out that sports competitions general do skip places when there are ties above that place. So schnee changed it in response to that. I preferred the old way myself. truth be told.

[orionid]

I’d also like to see true place rankings, with ties for the same number of votes and no skipping places.

The FSM actually used to do this until someone pointed out that sports competitions general do skip places when there are ties above that place. So schnee changed it in response to that. I preferred the old way myself. truth be told.

I still prefer it the way it is. If I have 8 votes, and four people have 9, I’m still the fifth-highest scoring person, and therefore fifth place, not second.

[Curious]

I’d also like to see true place rankings, with ties for the same number of votes and no skipping places.

The FSM actually used to do this until someone pointed out that sports competitions general do skip places when there are ties above that place. So schnee changed it in response to that. I preferred the old way myself. truth be told.

I still prefer it the way it is. If I have 8 votes, and four people have 9, I’m still the fifth-highest scoring person, and therefore fifth place, not second.

what he^ said. i don’t know how you would award say second third and forth if they all had the same number of votes.

[kashari]

Wow, you guys are making my need for sequential order go crazy! 😆

So in your example; if you, with 8 votes, are in fifth place, then who is in 2nd, 3rd & 4th? The ‘9ers’ are all in 1st place with their number of votes. You have the next number, which makes you SECOND! It shouldn’t matter how many people tie, YOU CAN’T JUST SKIP NUMBERS, dammit! And who cares what sports guys do, they’re just a bunch of dumb jocks who obviously don’t know how to count! 😡

1,2,3,4,5

not

1,5

At least Elsinore knows proper order… 😉

FSM can keep its ranking system but maybe do this one the other way, then at least they’re not exactly the same?

[CauseISaidSo]

We’ll see what happens when I get to the actual implementation, but my current plan is to make the choice of rank/place algorithm selectable. It’ll get saved per person either in a cookie or with a login.

Obviously, you won’t be able to compare stats directly across algorithms, but I think the comparitive stats within each algorithm should work out the same because it won’t change the order, just the assignment of places.

Now on another topic, I’ve seen two requests for less penalties for missing contests, but does anyone have any ideas on how to address that? There are some stats now where particpiation frequency isn’t a factor (e.g., best average standing and best average votes/entry), but I’m not sure how to factor it out of something like most recent highest vote count.

[soosh]

I was here early, but stopped for a while, and then came back. and I’ve had some breaks since then. Cool stats. I wish I knew how to comb data like that to get that sort of thing.

[Curious]

but I’m not sure how to factor it out of something like most recent highest vote count.

IMO most recent by definition wouldn’t allow that. say john or mary got 100 votes in feb 2009 and happy with their win went off to celebrate never to return. they would be the defacto winner from there on until someone else got 101. and again IMO best average seems to cover or allow for participation.

[ravnostic]

First and foremost, I’d like to thank Schnee for creating and hosting the FSM. I don’t think (and did not read any indication here) that any of us are ungrateful for his (her?) work, and it’s definitely helped my enjoyment and learning curve, being able to look through other’s farktography portfolios.

That being said, I’d like to thank you, too, even if you just enjoy the programming exercise. As a math geek, I know how fun numbers can be, and it’s always interesting to tweek the algorithms and see how things measure up. I’m glad you’ve taken on the task, and I’m sure you’ll provide your own number theory ‘personality’ to whatever it is you go live with one day.

For me, I’m in the camp that likes the current rank system. If two tie for 1st place, it makes no sense that the next highest placed, 3rd among them, be 2nd. But that’s just me.

For the rest of it, I have no preferences, and not many well-thought-out opinions. I’ll be happy with whatever you come up with. If you were getting paid, I’d expect every bell and whistle. But as you’re not, I’ll accept what you have to offer and be happy with the results, regardless.

[Elsinore]

Wow, you guys are making my need for sequential order go crazy! 😆

So in your example; if you, with 8 votes, are in fifth place, then who is in 2nd, 3rd & 4th? The ‘9ers’ are all in 1st place with their number of votes. You have the next number, which makes you SECOND! It shouldn’t matter how many people tie, YOU CAN’T JUST SKIP NUMBERS, dammit! And who cares what sports guys do, they’re just a bunch of dumb jocks who obviously don’t know how to count! 😡

1,2,3,4,5

not

1,5

At least Elsinore knows proper order… 😉

FSM can keep its ranking system but maybe do this one the other way, then at least they’re not exactly the same?

At least we have each other! *beer*

As someone else mentioned, there are stats that aren’t biased for frequent participation–the averages. schnee built the variety into the FSM for exactly that reason, that some stats might reflect quantity, while others would reflect quality. Sometimes they’ll intersect, other times they won’t.

I guess I’m also wondering if we’re discussing scrapping the FSM for something new or….? I know schnee has always been open to suggestions in the past, so I’m wondering if there were requests or ideas for the FSM why not just make suggestions to him? Not to denigrate CauseISaidSo’s clearly masterful grasp of statistics and his own cool graphs thereof, but to be honest, I’m feeling a little like we’re talking about reinventing the wheel or throwing the baby out with the bath water. schnee’s been with Farktography since theme #24, and he’s put a lot into the community. Personally, I wouldn’t want to see the FSM go away.

[Curious]

i don’t think that’s the case. CauseISaidSo seems to be doing this for his own enjoyment primarily and ask for suggestions just in case someone wants a particular stat. i get the impression that these would run concurrently not as a replacement.

[ravnostic]

I guess I’m also wondering if we’re discussing scrapping the FSM for something new or….? I know schnee has always been open to suggestions in the past, so I’m wondering if there were requests or ideas for the FSM why not just make suggestions to him? Not to denigrate CauseISaidSo’s clearly masterful grasp of statistics and his own cool graphs thereof, but to be honest, I’m feeling a little like we’re talking about reinventing the wheel or throwing the baby out with the bath water. schnee’s been with Farktography since theme #24, and he’s put a lot into the community. Personally, I wouldn’t want to see the FSM go away.

I certainly didn’t want to convey that–and hope I didn’t! Stat resources are like money at an auction–the more, the better! I go to a number of news outlets, some general, some specific, some opinionated. I like the differing vantage points and subject focuses when assessing my world around me. This is no different, just on a photographic scale.

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